“We must really learn…”

The Parliamentary Preparatory Group is going to meet again one of these days in order to work out the mechanism of launching the first session of the next-convocation parliament. So far, things are barely plodding along in this area. The opposition insists on individual voting in the new Verkhovna Rada and says it will not take part in the group’s work until its demand is satisfied. It is quite a logical stand, taking into account the Constitutional provision on individual voting. Oleksandr YEFREMOV, head of the Party of Regions parliamentary faction, admits that it is a problem but, in his view, the opposition’s demand is nothing but hype.

“FROM THE LEGAL VIEWPOINT, THE GROUP CAN WORK BECAUSE WE ARE THE MAJORITY”

Mr. Yefremov, the Parliamentary Preparatory group has begun to work. Did you expect things to be so difficult again?

“I would not say that everything is difficult. I was twice a member of preparatory groups in the 5th- and 6th-convocation parliaments. I cannot say that it is now more difficult or vice versa. Every time new people come, they often have to get accustomed to many things. This especially applies to newcomers, for they are full of maximalism – they think that only what they are saying really matters. Only some time later do they become aware that there are 450 people like them. Before saying anything, you must learn to hear and listen to others – only then others will hear and listen to you. We were represented at the first meeting by the party leader and his deputies, and we were authorized to make any decision. By contrast, our counterparts were not decision-makers, so they always did not know what to do in one situation or another. It was clear from the very beginning: they were only bent on making political statements and addressing problems in such a way that they would not be solved and, as a result, they could make a demarche. For want of constructive ideas, they are trying to show their votes at least something, and non-constructive attitude is the easiest thing to demonstrate.”

In what way will you be going out of this situation?

“By way of negotiations and search for a compromise. This is the only way the Verkhovna Rada can work.”

The opposition is demanding individual voting…

“This is not the problem – we have no differences about individual voting. At the very first meeting, the opposition did not raise the question of individual voting. Instead, they said: let us draw up some resolution in 10 to 15 minutes and put it to the vote. This sounds funny for me. The Constitution has a clause about the necessity of individual voting, there is also a related mechanism described in the Verkhovna Rada Regulations, but these do not work. So it is impossible to find a way to solve this problem within 10 to 15 minutes. We proposed putting this question on the agenda and working further on. Our counterparts did not agree.”

How will you work if the opposition goes on missing the Preparatory Group’s meetings?

“From the legal viewpoint, the group can work because we are the majority. We could have made all the necessary decisions at the first meeting, but we chose not to do so because we want the entire parliament, not only the majority, to work. I think this will be done. Some people will not manage to hold all the other factions by the short hairs in pursuance of their parties’ goals. Besides, there are also different opinions among the opposition parties. I don’t think that all will line up and vote the way somebody, for example, Turchynov, will say. I hope UDAR and Freedom will be taking a stand of their own on many issues. So things are not so sad.”

“WE HAVE SO FAR THE APPLICATIONS OF 223 MPs ABOUT JOINING OUR FACTION”

A difficult process of the formation of a parliamentary majority is underway. The Party of Regions lacks votes for this. Incidentally, is it your goal to form a majority composed of your party’s representatives only?

“Any political force that goes to the polls wants to obtain the maximum number of votes.

“In all civilized countries, the party that has come first in the elections suggests that its colleagues rally around its program and platform. In this country, however, there is a political force that disagrees with everything is thus being marginalized. It has not recognized the results of three consecutive elections. This looks undemocratic even in Europe.”

Do you mean Fatherland?

“Yes.”

But they are not much lagging behind the Party of Regions, as far as voters’ support is concerned.

“I would not say they still have this support. I think, after speaking to many, including European, politicians, that fewer and fewer people are wishing to take this attitude. This country should not fall hostage to one political force.”

Did you expect to win the number of parliamentary seats that you have now or more?

“I personally think there will be more. We expected to win about 226 seats, including the first-past-the-post deputies. But we got fewer, so we are now working to form a majority. This also depends on the attitude of the still-hesitating first-past-the-post candidates.”

Do you mean the self-nominees?

“Them, too. I can see our opposition counterparts begin to get nervous whenever some of their circle takes a different viewpoint. Let us see what the majority will look like. This will be clear during the very first vote in parliament, for example, for the head of the government or during the formation of the Cabinet of Ministers. We so far have the applications of 223 deputies for joining our faction. The work is going on.”

Is the Party of Regions going to attract the Communists to the majority?

“To form a majority, parties usually make deals. We can’t possibly grab them by the arm and drag them after ourselves. We suggest to all of our parliamentary colleagues that they rally around the Party of Regions’ program. The Communists are supporting us, as far as the matters being discussed in the Preparatory Group are concerned. Time will show what will be next.”

Would you personally like to see the Communists in the parliamentary majority?

“I would like to see an alliance based on our program goals.”

Is the Party of Regions prepared to share power?

“We are prepared to speak to all the political forces, except perhaps for the ones that abide by some extremist philosophy.”

The Communists are at the head of some governmental entities today. What next?

“We will have to decide whether or not they will head any governmental entities. If they become part of the newly-formed executive branch, they will have to make some concessions, as we will have to.”

What is precisely the goal: to form a permanent parliamentary majority or will a situational majority suffice?

“The former option is more logical – all the more so when the question is to carry out reforms in this country.”

It is also being negotiated who will take the chair of parliament speaker. Can you presume that the speaker may not necessarily represent your party?

“I can say that this is not so important for us. What is really important for us is that the person who will preside over the Verkhovna Rada should be our follower and promote the achievement of our political force’s program goals. It is difficult to say today who will be contending for this office.”

You are also said to be a contender. Would you comment?

“I am doing certain work in my current office. This work is not so simple. If my colleagues trust me to continue working in this area, my ambitions will be fully satisfied.”

“IN ALL PROBABILITY, THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM WILL CHANGE. MAYBE, THERE WILL BE OPEN PARTY LISTS”

Will you comment on the elections in Kyiv, for the Party of Regions lost in all the first-past-the-post constituencies?

“This is too bad for us. Politically, Kyiv city was out of focus. As a party regional organization’s leader, I can compare the work being done by the Luhansk and the Kyiv party organizations. In the case of Kyiv, there is no effective party discipline. This in fact affected the election results in the capital. When there are followers who rally around the party, when people can see that the party is working, why is there a result like this? We will probably discuss this at a sitting of our party’s political council and draw the necessary conclusions.”

Now that there has been so much criticism, do you think it was a mistake to bring back the first-past-the-post system?

“In 2004, when we were switching to proportional representation, I thought that this country was not prepared for it. Why? Because it was possible, sitting in Kyiv, to draw up at once a list of people who will be MPs – for a long time at that. This is exactly what happened. For, by all accounts, political party leaders were drawing up lists, the grassroots voted for them, but it turned out as a result that nobody worked on the territories. Then, when the next elections came, all politicians began to shout that they would do their best for the grassroots to really have their MPs. This brought about the mixed-system elections. We failed to come to terms about some other configuration.

“We all approved the law, held the elections, and saw the other side of the coin. We had seen this before. Who is a first-past-the-post candidate? It is one who has certain means and, hence, a possibility to effectively organize their election campaign. Some candidates resorted to bribing voters no matter whether it was in eastern or western Ukraine. Never before had we seen such thing as mass-scale buying of votes. For example, lots of money was splurged in Luhansk oblast’s five constituencies that had been bought by certain candidates. But, paradoxically, none of them became an MP. And, frankly speaking, this gladdens me. People begin to understand that they can take money but still should vote for the candidate they like. We are getting a different society.

“It is difficult, of course, to speak today about the next parliamentary elections. We must first hold the presidential elections in 2015, but, in all probability, the electoral system will change. Maybe, there will be open party lists. The current-collocation MPs will be acting in the future situation on the basis of the deals they will manage to make now.”

You had already said before the elections that the Cabinet was in for portfolio redistribution. Which sectors will this concern?

“Staff replacements are usually the preserve of the head of state. The president is a pivotal player, and not all things will be decided upon in parliament. The president may or may not accept the Verkhovna Rada’s proposals. Therefore, there is hardly a person in this country who could say: it will be like this. This would be irresponsible.”

“THERE ARE ENDLESS ATTEMPTS TO MAKE US FACE A CHOICE: WHO ARE YOU WITH – THE ‘WHITES’ OR THE ‘REDS’?”

Ukraine’s Prime Minister Mykola Azarov recently met the Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev in Moscow. What do you know about the results of their negotiations?

“As far as I know, the negotiations were very difficult and will continue.”

Why do you think the Russians refuse to make concessions?

“Like any other great power, Russia wants to see Ukraine within its sphere of political influence. The European community (which is more beset now with its own problems), the US, and a number of other big international players would also like to see us in their own sphere of influence. The only problem is that there are endless attempts to make us face a choice: who are you with – the ‘whites’ or the ‘reds’?”

Why?

“Because, unless we start to respect ourselves, they will trade us in the international market. Those people in Ukraine who consider themselves to be nationally oriented actually cause great troubles for our country. They are touring Europe and buy European politicians for Ukrainian money. A proof of that can be traced in, for example, various publications of WikiLeaks. We can sort out our relationship within the country, but on the outside we all have to defend our state. It is a wrong question people ask: what is closer to us – Brussels, Moscow, or Washington? To that I always answer: Kyiv is the closest to me.

“What concerns our relationship with Russia, we never asked anything from Russia and will never compromise on any issue. We are simply saying that the price for gas has to be fair. It is true that at some point the Russian leadership tricked Ukrainian politicians into signing an agreement that is damaging to our country. This year we have already paid Russia 10.5 billion dollars. It’s a lot of money…”

Russia reduces gas prices for Europe, but does not want to do the same for Ukraine.

“Because they see weakness inside our country. If we had monolithic position, things would have been different.”

There is not much progress in relationship with Europe either.

“One American analyst once said: ‘If I want to call Europe, tell me a phone number I can use to reach someone to talk to.’ Most recently, Ms. Merkel came to Vladimir Putin and told him: ‘In order to make any decision we have to consult with 27 states and only after that we will be able to make a final decision.’ I tell this to illustrate that in relationship between Ukraine and Europe there is also a time factor present. Things are not that simple.”

The current government is in a very difficult situation. There are problems in the West and not everything is well in the East either. In this situation the only serious support for the country’s leadership may be their own people, but one can hardly say that the current government and the people of Ukraine have mutual understanding. Who are you going to rely on?

“I agree here with you that we should rely on our own people. So we must clearly explain to them what we want to do and seek their support. If we have the support of not just 30 but 60 percent of the population, it would mean that we do everything right. And if we do not have 60-percent support, then we are probably wrong and there is no reason to blame the people. On the other hand, I can admit that we do not work in full capacity, but we are certainly working better than other politicians. Perhaps, we are not perfect in what we do, but we are the best of those capable of doing this in Ukraine at the moment. I think that the president sees our flaws and he hereby is concerned. We really need to learn and we will make the appropriate conclusions as a political force.”