Volodymyr MAKEIENKO: “Parliament will only change under a 100-percent first-past-the-post system”
Volodymyr Makeienko is a longtime MP. He was the youngest deputy at the first-convocation Verkhovna Rada. He knows for sure what the parliament used to be and is now. We are discussing with Volodymyr MAKEIENKO, an MP from the Party of Regions, such topics as the ad hoc commission of inquiry into land-sale abuses in Kyiv, the lifting of parliamentary immunity, selection criteria for the Party of Regions lists, and restoration of public trust in parliament.
“There was only one item on the agenda – establishing an ad hoc commission of inquiry into land sale machinations in Kyiv on the part of the mayor and the City Council. The motion was agreed upon unanimously. It will be put to a vote in the session room tomorrow or The Day after tomorrow. The ad hoc commission comprises representatives of all the factions. It is proposed that Kyrylo Kulykov and I be appointed chairman and deputy chairman, respectively. I think it is a serious moment in the life of Kyiv and Kyivites. They will be able, at last, to know the truth about what was going on in Kyiv, and, what is more, this will be a lesson for everybody, be it a mayor or a city council member. What was before will never happen again. The point is the current Kyiv mayor’s term of office is expiring one of these days. It is very interesting to take a closer look at the performance of Leonid Chernovetsky as mayor, for we have often read in media reports and ordinary people’s letters that there were very many abuses.”
When will the elections be called?
“There is a problem here. It is the Verkhovna Rada that must fix the Kyiv mayoral election date. There may be several options. This may occur on July 29 this year, but in this case the Kyiv City Council will be elected a year later. What is to be done? The mayoral and parliamentary elections can be held simultaneously on October 28, but this again raises the question: what about the Kyiv City Council? The two simultaneous elections can be also called a year later, when the city council’s term will have expired. In a word, this knot should be undone by political and legal means so that the Kyiv city elections may be, once and for all, an integral part of the overall electoral process. The Verkhovna Rada is now working on this and is expected to make a decision one of these days. If it makes this decision, the elections will take place before July 29. Money should be spent sparingly on the elections – I mean that the Kyiv city elections should be timed to a certain significant date.”
Maybe, Chernovetsky has appeared in Kyiv now just for this reason?
“Maybe, for this is an open process. It is Kyrylo Kulykov who proposed setting up the inquiry commission. It is going to be an interesting commission. For example, the BYuT has delegated such a figure as Volodymyr Yavorivsky. He is sure not to keep silent. This will not be a commission on paper only. Its term of office will last until the end of this convocation, the final date being Decembe3 7, 2012, when the newly-elected Verkhovna Rada is supposed to begin functioning.”
How is the Verkhovna Rada going to work during Euro-2012?
“On June 8, Friday, parliament will work until the lunchtime. The next week will be devoted to working in the committees. There will be only one plenary week – June 19 to 22. This is an optimal schedule and, I hope, it will suit everybody. For there are a lot of fans, as well as soccer club owners, in the Verkhovna Rada.”
Are you planning any collective visits to matches?
“We aren’t, incidentally.”
What are the most important qualities that a today’s politician should have?
“If we compare the last convocation of Soviet Ukraine’s parliament or the first convocation of the Verkhovna Rada of independent Ukraine with the current convocation, we will, naturally, see that the inner world and qualities of today’s politicians have changed very much. The country, the environment, the living standards, and the ways of capital accumulation have undergone changes. The level of parliamentarianism in Ukraine has been falling with every passing year. Morality and education were pushed to the back burner.
“Today, everybody should be aware of why he has come to parliament and remember the people who brought him there. I may be saying some outdated things, but now everybody only cares about themselves, their family, business, and lobbying. If you remember at least 30 percent of the people who brought you to parliament and know that you might as well be one of them tomorrow, then you are a politician.”
The current MPs seem to be unconcerned about having to eventually return to their past life, to the people who elected them to parliament.
“I am trying not to forget this.”
What methods should we apply to change the situation and make society more harmonious, so that politicians may not be afraid to come back to the usual life?
“I am strongly convinced that the party system in Ukraine is a terrible mistake. I have gone through all the systems – first-past-the-post, proportional, and mixed. The party system is a hoax, a close corporation that serves to fulfill someone’s ambitions. I remember who voted for the proportional system – they were the Communists, Socialists, the SDPU(o), and the followers of Tymoshenko. Having a faction of your own is like having your own house, car, bank, or media. A first-past-the post MP, even if he is rich and represents an oligarchic clan, is still forced to react to the life in his constituency. At the first stage, 175 Party of Regions members were returned to parliament on the basis of party lists, but now the figure has reached 232.
“Naturally, these people are very far from political and economic processes. They will not breach discipline and will vote the way they are told. If there were a 100-percent first-past-the-post system, there would be no controversial items on the agenda.
“I can remember July 16 voting on the Declaration of Ukraine’s Independence. That was done in a parliament where there were a lot of communists, Group 239, Halushko, still chairman of Soviet Ukraine’s KGB. Yes, there were debates that may have lasted for a day or two, but there were no fisticuffs. If I had been elected from Luhansk, I would perhaps have voted ‘against,’ but I was elected from central Ukraine and, therefore, voted ‘for.’ I could feel the public mood in the constituency.”
We also had an opportunity to build a party-list-based system.
“Ukrainian mentality makes this very difficult. I can imagine a situation today, when a first-past-the-post MP, who spent so much strength, health, money and won in a constituency of about 170,000 people, is told: do this! He will obey a few times and then he will say: either introduce a separate item in the budget or I will be voting the way people in the constituency want me to.”
But, as practice shows, people can be kept in check.
“I agree, but Ukraine is so big that you can’t keep everybody in check.”
An expert said a very good phrase recently: at the current stage, the interests of the Party of Regions have miraculously coincided with the strategic interests of society.
“It is the amplitudes that coincided. If I had my way, I would go on and introduce a 100-percent first-past-the-post system. This would slim down the constituency. Yes, sessions would perhaps last longer – including Saturdays and Sundays – but they would show logic and common sense. We had this kind of parliament, a true one, in the first and second convocation.”
Are you going to run in a first-past-the-post constituency or by a party list?
“This is a still open question for me because the election campaign officially starts 90 days before the election, i.e., in late July. On the other hand, I am a longtime politician and, therefore, do not need too much time for publicity: I keep visiting the constituencies to meet people and I am open to the media. This is a question of not only an individual, but also of his or her family. You don’t belong to yourself and your family because you are just short of time. I think the lists, including those of the first-past-the-post candidates, will go on being altered until the last day. Moreover, the Central Electoral Commission only recently decided on the number and size of constituencies.”
What are the current choice criteria for Party of Regions candidates?
“The Party of Regions is getting rid of the now popular political attitude, when many people consider party lists an easy way to gain a profit. Winning a parliamentary seat is by far the best scheme to make a profit. It is the best project for cost-efficiency and irresponsibility. You may have noticed that there are not so many opposition representatives among those sitting in the session room. They are now seeking an opportunity to cling to some list. For example, it is unclear which of the lists the NUNS is clinging to. The people are in search. Unlike the opposition, the Party of Regions has a group of members (60 to 70) who are always at work: they move bills and vote. (Of course, I do not mean a 100-percent attendance.) These people, who are eager to work, are becoming professional MPs and will be put on the lists.”
You said in an interview: we will lift immunity when the time comes. Has the time come?
“Today, this issue is quite in vein of the current political moment. To solve the immunity problem, we need 226 votes. I think we will garner them. Besides, the opposition will have no other option but to vote. But the next session will need 300 votes. Where can these votes be found? After the redistribution of the constituencies and lists, some MPs will see that they are neither here nor there and, following the principle ‘you will belong to nobody,’ they may as well vote. There will be a lot of them. Another thing is personal talks with and personal promises to the MPs. Why should immunity be lifted? Because if an individual is immune, he or she does not think about the laws they make: they will know that these laws are not dangerous for them. But, if the immunity is lifted, MPs will be thinking because they will be like everybody else. This will have a serious effect on the quality of documents, and MPs will begin to read them more attentively. For example, it will be dangerous for MPs themselves to lobby some laws for the law-enforcement bodies because these will concern them personally.”
Is it about the immunity of MPs only?
“Yes, so far. But when the next parliament is convened, how will Ukrainian mentality work in this case? Why does my neighbor still have a cow, while mine is dead? Who else enjoys immunity? Judges? We’ll settle this. This process will never end, but it is important that it has begun.”
