“I would consider the question of pardon”

Volodymyr Zubanov is an absolutely untypical member of the Party of Regions. To start with, being the director of a factory he asked to be in the committee for spirituality (usually everybody wants to be in other committees, in the budget committee, for instance). Secondly, Zubanov can afford not to vote as Mykhailo Chechetov tells to. Finally, he has the time and inspiration to edit history books. His recent hobby is battle painting. However, we started our conversation not with art (since such is the tedium of life) but with current political events.

It has been a week that the scandal with the participation of Zabzaliuk and Rybakov is the major topic of the information space. The following question is probably naive but where do the MPs get so much money: 450,000 dollars plus 25,000 dollars a month?

“Periodically there were rumors that a million dollars was offered. There is a talk that five or ten million dollars are needed to win the elections in a district.

As for the scandal with Zabzaliuk and Rybakov, I can easily explain it: this is the result of the way the members of BYuT made their lists. We have an example of two members of BYuT who tried to gain each other over.”

It is hard to believe that Rybakov gave his money.

“It is just an assumption. There are a lot of serious businesspeople in the Verkhovna Rada, in BYuT in particular. For many of them this money is not a problem. Why didn’t I mention the deputies from the Party of Regions? Because we are not involved in this scandal. It is the problem of BYuT and they have to solve it on their own.”

Another recent piece of news directly concerns the Party of Regions. Dmytro Salamatin became the new minister of defense. It is remarkable that he had become the citizen of Ukraine only in 1999. Practically, he does not have any roots in our country.

“Onyschenko [head of Rospotrebnadzor. – Ed.] is a typically Ukrainian surname. However, look at the sanctions he imposes against Ukrainian cheese and chicken. Or Valentina Matvienko (head of government of St. Petersburg in 2003-11): she has the Ukrainian origin but how she defends Russian positions! Any indigenous Russian should learn from her.”

The former minister Yezhel was criticized a lot, however, after Salamatin was appointed all those critics fell silent.

“Now there is nothing left but watching the developments in six month or a year and seeing to what extent our army will be professional. I would like to recall Kyrpa as an example. Kuchma trusted him a lot. There was a need to build the road to Odesa – no problem! Why? Was Kyrpa a great expert? No, he was not. The president just trusted him. He knew for sure that he would not steal this money, would efficiently use it and there would be normal objects. The same goes for Salamatin [It would be useful to recall the end of super-confidential relations between Kuchma and Kyrpa. Where is Kyrpa now? In all probability, Salamatin would not like such parallels to be drawn. – Ed.]

If Yanukovych trusts Salamatin, the army will be better financed. It is very important now to have an efficient army.”

Let’s speak about Tymoshenko. The idea that after putting her into prison the authorities became prisoners of their own actions is getting more and more popular. A kind of zugzwang. On the one hand, the president does not want to step back, on the other hand, Europe is speaking about sanctions. Everybody saw that Yanukovych looked confused and lonely in Davos and Munich.

“I did not notice that he was confused.”

Other people approached him (for example, Hillary Clinton) only to speak about Tymoshenko.

“The reason for this is that Tymoshenko’s contract is still valid and it washes out all the money from our country. It will be valid for a long period of time. We can see that Russia does not want to review it. It provides for outraging sanctions, fines, purchase amounts, and payments by the seventh day every month.”

Why is Tymoshenko’s release a “very bad” scenario?

“Because she has the highest anti-rating.”

But Viktor Yanukovych has outstripped her long time ago…

“I say what I see. I saw that when Tymoshenko was arrested 150 people came into the streets. Tymoshenko was sentenced to 7 years of prison and 200 people came to support her.

“In Moscow 100,000 people protested against Putin. Tymoshenko was supported by 150 people, mainly elderly women. Where were those 600,000 people making part of her party? If this person with such a high anti-rating is released over half of the country will ask: how should we take it? The country is suffering such losses! The United Energy Systems of Ukraine have not been examined yet.”

You once said that at president’s place you would consider the question of pardon. However, for this Tymoshenko has to plead guilty and address the president. She says she will never do it.

“The current legislation provides that her relatives, advocates, NGOs or MEPs can do it. What is pardon? There are a lot of options for the president. He can reduce the term from seven to five years. He can completely pardon her and even expunge her conviction and give her possibility to participate in the elections.

I would consider the question of pardon after all the cases are finished. The president should decide what it will be.”

“I THINK THAT LUTSENKO WILL NOT BE GIVEN A SEVERE SENTENCE”

One more resonant process which is Lutsenko case is now in the homestretch. Nearly 80 witnesses supported him. Three out of five complainants wrote the applications that they could not come and one who came said that he had complaints about Tsushko and not about Lutsenko.

“The advocates say that all the witnesses supported Lutsenko, prosecutors say that, vice versa, all the witnesses confirmed the charges against Lutsenko. Who should we trust?”

Lutsenko was wrong to do much good to his driver. However, as compared to what we have mentioned it is nothing. At the beginning of our conversation we mentioned enormous money that turns in the parliament…

“I sometimes look at our respected politicians saying that our main problem is corruption. Extremely rich people owing the land, factories, and real estate abroad speculate about the corruption. Fifteen years ago these people bought at a bargain a lot of very expensive land, bought a lot of enterprises standing on this land, and now when they are millionaires they can speculate about corruption.

“That is why I think that Lutsenko case is the case of our society’s moral, though they say that similar things were done before Lutsenko. I agree that as compared to what people suspect, others stole and are stealing more. The question is: how much is it possible to steal if possible at all.

I do not think that Lutsenko will be given a severe sentence, taking into account that he has already spent a year in prison. However, this case has to signalize about the moral of all our society.”

“THEY ARE NOT EVEN BARBARIANS, THEY ARE WORSE”

I have an impression that your colleagues from the Party of Regions decided to play the “language card” before the elections. Mykhailo Chechetov says that one of the key bills they are going to adopt in the Verkhovna Rada is the law on the language policy by Kivalov and Kolesnichenko. According to this bill, Russian language will become official in 10 regions of Ukraine.

“I decided for myself that to adopt a decision I should rely on something. If this decision damages the independence it is bad. If it strengthens the independence it is good. For some our independence dropped from the clouds but others gave their blood for it. However, we have been independent for 20 years now. Everything which is good for it is good for me and everything which is bad for it is bad for me too.

“Two national languages are not a problem if the Constitution of Ukraine provides that every citizen has to know two languages, Ukrainian and Russian, equally well. However, how can this equality be assured?

“It is clear that the Ukrainian language is not competitive in the world. If you speak it there is no guarantee that you will get a job somewhere in the world and will have a good salary. However, don’t the Finns, Poles, Hungarians, and Romanians understand that their languages are not competitive? They still care about their language and their culture.

“There are also moral obligations towards our predecessors and the world community. Ukrainian language and culture make the universal heritage, just like Saint Sophia. If we start ruining it with our own hands, how will the world take us?

“We should stop showing off and saying that we do not understand Ukrainian and do not want to do it. It is not a problem if the documents are in Ukrainian. There is the state of Ukraine and there is the national language and we should know it.”

If I am not mistaken, a couple of years ago you said that it is normal to have two national languages and gave the example of bilingual Canada.

“I did, but then I looked at Canada more intently. I found out that French-speaking Quebec is raising the question of splitting from Canada. Where is France? And where is Quebec? Russia is so close to us. Less than 10 years are needed to split the country if we have two national languages!”

There is another scandalous bill. A group of MPs suggest giving the church several objects situated on the territories of several monasteries. One of its initiators, Vasyl Horbal said that the majority of deputies support “giving the cathedrals to the orthodox church.” All the cathedrals (Sviato-Bohoiavlensky Covent in the Ternopil oblast, Pochaiv Lavra, and Kyiv Cave Monastery) belong to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate.

“How can we give the Pochaiv Lavra to the Moscow Patriarchate if it has been Greek-Catholic for 150 years? All the main buildings there have been built by the Greek Catholics. Do they want the Pope to interfere?

“In Russia this law could work. The Moscow Patriarchate represents the national religion there. However, in Ukraine different religions are represented. How can we share everything in favor of one church?”

“WE ARE THEIR SPIRITUALITY THE NATION CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT”

What do you think about the developments in Russia? Will those numerous meetings of the opposition result in anything specific?

“What can they result in? The people came, made a lot of noise, and broke up. There is no serious leader. There is no team that would come with him. They will just get angry and break shop windows if Putin wins in the first round.

“When Yugoslavia collapsed a lot of analysts said that Serbia finished as a state. Why? Because the central lands were left in Croatia. All their spirituality, monasteries, origins of their region were left to the Croats. The Serbs have lost touch with their past.

“Ukraine is the same for Russia. Everything is here. The Slavic ethnos was born and baptized here, the religion started here. We are their spirituality the nation cannot live without. That is why their interest towards Ukraine is clear. Another thing is that it should be realized through reasonable and fair relations.”

“WE WANT TO TURN THE UKRAINIAN MENTALITY TO THE HISTORY”

It is no secret that you are keen on history. On April 18 in Lviv you will present the painting Galician Gonfalons in the Battle of Grunwald of 1410. Why did you choose this event?

“Poles, Lithuanians, and Belarusians are very proud of this battle since they defeated the Teutonic Order and turned the European history in the opposite direction.

“However, few people know that the Ukrainians participated in it as well. The Ukrainians made 20 percent of the army that won the battle. Even most of the people living in Lviv did not know that they have real heroes mentioned in the chronicles, for example, Ivan Sushyk, born in Romaniv.

“There are a lot of paintings depicting this topic. Most of them are Polish and there is one Belarusian. They glorify their people and their heroes. We made a great contribution and were left aside. As if it did not concern us. That is why we find such examples and start promoting them.”

Who is the painter? Poiarkov?

“No, Artur Orlenov. Not everyone will read a book but looking at a painting is enough to understand everything.”

There are a lot of heroic events in other regions: Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Kyrovohrad, etc. Why did the “Donetsk guys” start with Halychyna?

“Western Ukraine and Kyiv buy our books the most actively. The center is a bit less active. Our native regions are lagging behind. We want to turn the Ukrainian mentality to the history and it will be easier to do it in Lviv. They are very interested in their history and the history of Ukraine. We are grateful to them for this.”